First-Order Solen Split Crossover
The so-called Solen split 1st-order crossover is a variation on the standard 1st-order crossover (Solen is a company that supplies passive crossover parts). This scheme attempts to improve the poor slow crossover from one drive unit to the other by putting the crossover point for each filter at −6 dB rather than the usual −3 dB, as in Figure 4.2. This applies a frequency offset to the cutoff (−3 dB) frequencies of each filter, so that the lowpass filter now has a cutoff of 579 Hz and the highpass filter now has a cutoff of 1.726 kHz, pulling apart them apart by a factor of 2.98 times or 1.68 octaves; the pullingapart process is presumably where the term “split” comes from. It may somewhat ease the demands on the drive units, but what of the amplitude response?
Figure 4.8 shows that, as we might expect, pulling apart the two cutoff frequencies has caused the summed response to sag in the middle, by 6 dB in fact. This is obviously going to sound like rubbish, but we get a better result if we reverse the phase to one of the drive units—a common manoeuvre in crossover design.
Figure 4.8: Frequency response of Solen split 1st-order 1 kHz crossover; both filter outputs plus their in-phase sum.
Solen split фильтр что это
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Убавить бас в активных колонках
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Крутизна среза тут ИМХО по барабану. Как вариант на вход TDA7265 поставить RC фильтр. Сборка печатных плат от $30 + БЕСПЛАТНАЯ доставка по всему миру + трафарет Ведущий производитель электрического оборудования компания MORNSUN выпустила серию источников питания на DIN-рейку LI100-20BxxPR3 c выходами на 12, 15, 24 и 48 В. ИП позиционируются для умных домов, а так же используются в составе оборудования для промышленной автоматизации, различных производственных машин, рельсовых систем транспортировки и другого оборудования, работающего в условиях неблагоприятной окружающей среды. _________________ Компания MEAN WELL продолжает активное развитие номенклатуры, осваивая новые направления и обновляя существующую продукцию с учетом возрастающих требований. В настоящий момент в Компэл представлено множество недавно вышедших новинок MEAN WELL. Бесполезно все это. Я в кухне сижу, смотрю 7" телевизор с 1.5 " пищалкой на середине громкости -так, чтобы разобрать только чтобы можно было звук( в соседней комнате работает телевизор как раз с упомянутыми колонками на средней мощности, глуховата она уже ) — так мать периодически кричит мне , чтобы я еще громкость убавил, а то ей не слышно совсем, мой телевизор, значит, ее глушит напрочь. Нет, здесь единственный вариант — это сменить соседей. Ну или стену на двойную капитальную. Они , понимаешь, уже не ушами, а ногами слышат вибрации по полу. skrm, не путайте варианты. Разберитесь где у микросхемы вход, и где выход. Лучше может и не будет но, то что проще точно. Судя по схеме, установлено несколько силовых конденсаторов на 25В, от этого я бы и отталкивался. Варианты установки фильтра: Да, вот как тут предлагают можно подумать над изменением номиналов деталей во встроенном блоке регулировок. Можно в повторителе. Но вообще думается что просто корпус в резонанс входит и все это дело бубнит. Спасибо. Не могу поставить плюсы почему то, не работает кнопка. После TDA я думал поставить только конденсатор, без катушки (я так понимаю вы говорите про "фильтр 2го порядка", а я хотел более простой "1го порядка", как на приложенных рисунках). Предполагал что подойдёт К-50-17 400мкФ 300В. 300 вольт выглядит достаточно силовым. Цена небольшая у него. Но погуглив "силовые конденсаторы" нашёл такое B32362-A3407-J30 ,MKP 400uF 330v, если цена несколько тысяч рублей за конденсатор, то лучше конечно врезаться до TDA. А если фильтр добавлять перед TDA после штатного регулятора (пересчитать там номиналы вряд ли смогу правильно), какое принимать сопротивление нагрузки при расчёте фильтра? И какой тип конденсаторов смотреть, электролитические подойдут? Муркиз, как раз самое интересное, что с этими колонками звук получается сделать тише, так как середина и верха у них гораздо чище и речь актёров разборчива на меньшей громкости. Но подводит любовь киноделов, особенно во всяких Мстителях и прочих боевиках, приседать на басы. Встроенные динамики просто не воспроизводили те частоты что пробиваются через стены. А здесь 16см мидбас, и всё грохочет. Вот нужно оставить эту хорошую середину и верх, и подрезать беспокоящий бас. А вы нажмите и обновите страницу, тут на форуме глюк. Да нее. не такие огромные конденсаторы по несколько тысяч. К-50-17 вполне подойдет. Не знаю сколько там вольт, но не думаю что там 300. Потому что в пассивные фильтры ставят и обычные электролиты на 25В. И думаю когда вы разберете колонку на втором динамике как раз что то из такой серии и будет. [1st Order] Butterworth vs Solen Split.I’m trying to do a low pass filter for my SEAS H602 P17REX/P. I plan to use 1st order filter with the crossover point at 4kHz. When I’ve tried to search for an information about the 1st order network, I saw there are two types of 1st order, Butterworth type and Solen Split type. So I want to know what is the different of usage for these two types ? More optionspresscotMember
More optionsjohn k.Member
More optionspresscotMember
And how different of usage between them ? My high-pass filter is 2nd order linkwitz-riley. So what type between two of them (Butterworth or Solen Split) should I use for my Lo-pass network ? More optionsjohn k.Member
More optionspresscotMember
Seems like it won’t be too difficult anymore. haha (just kidding) So, I want your help to decide. As I’m looking for 1st order filter to be using in my lo-pass filter at 4khz. From the calculation, The "Butterworth" equation tells me to use L = 0.32 mH while the "Solen Split" suggests me to 0.47 mH. And that when compared to each other, the value of 0.32 mH from "Butterworth" will provide a cross point at about 5kHz in Solen Split’s table and the value of 0.47 mH from "Solen Split" will give a cross point at about 3kHz in Butterwoth’s table as these link below. So, Could anyone please tell me the expectation of the different of sound between the two values ? I mean, for example, the first one will provide more mid-frequencies and the latter will give more bass. Thanks for insight More optionswintermuteJust another Moderator
I think you have completely missed John’s point What matters is the acoustic slope that results from the combination of the filter with the driver. That is not something you can get from a theoretical calculation. It’s like asking "If I meet a complete stranger and offer them an apple or an orange which one will they prefer?" It depends on the person! and in the case of your filters, it depends on the drivers More optionsrichie00boyMember
This is the key statement. Have a look at the sticky thread in loudspeakers/multi-way about crossover design without measurement. Even that is just ball park though. Go with the bigger inductor as it’s likely to have less of a bump at the crossover frequency. You get different crossover points with the two tables because they align at different points on the phase curve. More optionsBanned
Theoretically, the Butterworth will have more overlap around crossover frequency, so there will be "bump" at 4kHz, may be 3dB. OTOH, the other one has less bump, could be 0dB or -3dB at 4kHz. As 4kHz is usually the location of breakups, and our ears are very sensitive to this frequency, and the filter is too simple, it is better to lower the response around this frequency, so I will prefer the "Solen Split", or even much lesser bump. Butterworth: 0.33mH — 5.0uF So you get the picture from looking at the above values (to minimize bump and keep the XO frequency unaltered you want to more or less increase the L and reduce the C). They are not accurate calculation anyhow (as your drivers are not pure 8 Ohm drivers), but that’s what you have. Which one that will sound best? The one that has better phase match (you wont know if you don’t measure, but trained ears can hear it). It is probably "saver" to choose lesser bump as it is more forgiving. Again, you rely on LUCK here. Luckily your woofer doesn’t have too many breakup issues. More optionspresscotMember
Theoretically, the Butterworth will have more overlap around crossover frequency, so there will be "bump" at 4kHz, may be 3dB. OTOH, the other one has less bump, could be 0dB or -3dB at 4kHz. As 4kHz is usually the location of breakups, and our ears are very sensitive to this frequency, and the filter is too simple, it is better to lower the response around this frequency, so I will prefer the "Solen Split", or even much lesser bump. Butterworth: 0.33mH — 5.0uF So you get the picture from looking at the above values (to minimize bump and keep the XO frequency unaltered you want to more or less increase the L and reduce the C). They are not accurate calculation anyhow (as your drivers are not pure 8 Ohm drivers), but that’s what you have. Which one that will sound best? The one that has better phase match (you wont know if you don’t measure, but trained ears can hear it). It is probably "saver" to choose lesser bump as it is more forgiving. Again, you rely on LUCK here. Luckily your woofer doesn’t have too many breakup issues. Thanks for more information, Jay But I still have a little doubt. If I plan to use a 2nd order "Linkwitz-Riley" filter on my tweeter and 1st order "Solen Split" on my woofer. Are they compatible ? I mean, the phase of these different types and orders will cause any problems ? and Do I need to do anything else to fix the problems ? such as "Reverse polarity" of the tweeter, etc. Filter & Crossover Types for LoudspeakersThe filter type can be described in several different ways. Low-pass and high-pass filters in two-way crossover networks are often identified by their «Q». The Q is the resonance magnification of the filter and it is recognized by the shape of the «knee» of the amplitude response. Filters with a high Q tend to «ring» and exhibit poor transient response. Unlike drivers and boxes which use only numerical values for Q, filters are sometimes named after the engineer(s) who first described them. Some examples are shown in the amplitude response graph below. Filter Types
The filters in three-way crossover networks (and some two-way networks) are often identified as either «APC» or «CPC» depending on the way they combine. APC stands for «All-Pass Crossover» and it refers to those crossover networks whose filters sum to create a flat voltage output. APC networks are generally considered the best choice because they make it possible for the speaker to have a flat on-axis amplitude response. Common APC networks include 1st- and 3rd-order Butterworth filters and 2nd- and 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley filters. CPC stands for «Constant-Power Crossover» and it refers to those crossovers whose filters sum to provide a flat power response. The power response of a speaker is the total of both its off-axis and on-axis amplitude response. In other words, it is the total acoustical power that is radiated into a space. CPC networks can be beneficial in reverberant environments where the off-axis response is important. The difference between APC and CPC networks can be understood electrically by a comparison of their input to output voltages. APC networks satisfy the following expression: This means the absolute value of the input voltage will equal the absolute value of the sum of the output voltages of each filter at all frequencies. CPC networks satisfy the following: VI^2 = VL^2 + VM^2 + VH^2 This means that the square of the input voltage will equal the sum of the squares of the output voltages of each filter at all frequencies. Filter SummaryThese generalizations assume that the drivers are properly aligned at the crossover frequency. This means that they are mounted in such a way that the direct sound from each driver arrives at the listener’s ear at the same time at the crossover frequency. Another important assumption is that the impedance response of each driver has been equalized so that it appears to be approximately resistive to the crossover network. Also, the sensitivity of the drivers is assumed to have been equalized with an appropriate L-pad. Finally, the following descriptions assume that all filters in the crossover network are of the same type. If a two-way crossover network has a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley low-pass filter, it is assumed that it also has a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley high-pass filter. If you choose to use mismatched filters, you’ll have to rely on the your own measurements and experience to determine the results. 1st-order FiltersAdvantages: Can produce minimum phase response (Butterworth only) and a maximally flat amplitude response. Requires the fewest components. Disadvantages: Its 6 dB/octave slope is often too shallow to prevent modulation distortion, especially at a tweeter’s resonance frequency. Achieving minimum phase and a maximally flat amplitude response requires very careful driver alignment and only occurs when the listener is located at exactly the same distance from each driver. It has a 90 degree phase shift which can result in lobing and tilting of the coverage pattern. 1st-order Butterworth: Produces a -3 dB crossover point to achieve a maximally flat amplitude response, minimum phase response and flat power response that qualifies it as both an APC and CPC network. The 90 degree phase shift results in a -15degree tilt in the vertical coverage pattern if the tweeter and woofer are vertically separated by no more than one wavelength at the crossover frequency and if the acoustical depth of the tweeter and woofer are carefully aligned at the crossover frequency. The tilt will increase and lobing can become severe if the drivers are separated by a greater distance or are misaligned. These problems appear as a ripple in the amplitude response. Filter Q = 0.707. 1st-order Solen Split -6 dB: A custom version of the 1st-order Butterworth filter (twoway crossovers) or 1st-order APC filter (three-way crossovers) that uses a -6 dB crossover point to minimize the disadvantages of a crossover network with standard 1st-order Butterworth or APC filters. Note. 1st-order filters are usually not recommended for three-way crossover networks because their shallow 6 dB/octave slopes do not provide adequate separation. 1st-order APC: Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat amplitude response. 1st-order CPC: (Seldom used.) Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat power response. 2nd-order FiltersAdvantages: Can produce a maximally flat amplitude response. Requires relatively few components. Has a 180 degree phase shift which can often be accommodated by reversing the polarity of the tweeter and which produces minimal or no lobing or tilt in the coverage pattern. Is less sensitive to driver misalignment than 1st-order filters. Disadvantages: Although the 12 dB/octave slope is better than a 1st-order filter, it may still be too shallow to minimize the modulation distortion of many drivers. 2nd-order Bessel: Produces a -5 dB crossover point to achieve a nearly flat (+1 dB) amplitude response. The summed group delay is flat. It has a low sensitivity to driver misalignment and resonance peaks. Filter Q = 0.58. 2nd-order Butterworth: Produces a -3 dB crossover point that sums to a +3 dB amplitude response and a flat power response that qualifies it as a CPC network. It has a medium sensitivity to driver misalignment and resonance peaks. Filter Q = 0.707. 2nd-order Chebychev: (Seldom used.) Produces a 0 dB crossover point to achieve a +6 dB amplitude response with about ±2 dB of ripple. The summed group delay has a significant peak just below the crossover frequency. It has a medium sensitivity to driver misalignment and resonance peaks. Filter Q = 1 .0. 2nd-order Linkwitz-Riley: (Very popular.) Produces a -6 dB crossover point to achieve a maximally flat amplitude response that qualifies it as an APC network. It has a -3 dB dip in the power response. The summed group delay is flat. It has a medium sensitivity to driver misalignment and resonance peaks. Filter Q = 0.49. 2nd-order APC: Produces -6 dB crossover points to achieve a flat amplitude response but the power response will have approximately 3 dB of ripple. 2nd-order CPC: (Seldom used.) Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat power response but the amplitude response will have approximately 3 dB of ripple. 3rd-order FiltersAdvantages: Can produce nearly flat amplitude response. With an 18 dB/octave slope, it is better able to minimize modulation distortion. Less sensitive to driver misalignment. Disadvantages: Requires more components. Has a 270 degree phase shift which can result in lobing and tilting of the coverage pattern. 3rd-order Butterworth: (Popular for some D’Appolito mid-tweeter-mid designs.) Produces a -3 dB crossover point to achieve a maximally flat amplitude response and flat power response that qualifies it as both an APC and CPC network. A 270 degree phase shift results in a + 15 degree tilt in the vertical coverage pattern if the tweeter is wired with normal polarity and a -15 degree tilt if the tweeter is wired with reverse polarity. (D’Appolito mid-tweeter-mid designs overcome much of this tilt problem and produce a more symmetrical coverage pattern.) It has better group delay than a 1st- and 2nd-order Butterworth network. Filter Q = 0.707. 3rd-order APC: Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat amplitude response but the power response will have a modest ripple (usually less then 1 dB) that increases slowly as the spread between the two crossover frequencies increases. 3rd-order CPC: (Seldom used.) Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat power response but the amplitude response will have a varying amount of ripple (typically 1 to 3 dB) depending on the spread between the two crossover frequencies. 4th-order FiltersAdvantages: Can produce a maximally flat amplitude response. With a 24 dB/octave slope it provides the best isolation between drivers resulting in the least modulation distortion. Has a 360 degree phase shift which results in «in-phase» response and which promotes minimal or no lobing or tilt in the coverage pattern. Is the least sensitive to driver misalignment. Disadvantages: Requires the most components. The increased number of inductors can result in substantial insertion loss because of inductor DCR. 4th-order Bessel: Produces a -7 ½ dB crossover point to achieve a nearly flat (-1 ½ dB) amplitude response. The summed group delay produces a moderate bump just below the crossover frequency. Filter Q = 0.58. 4th-order Butterworth: Produces a -3 dB crossover point that sums to a +3 dB amplitude response and flat power response that qualifies it as a CPC network. The summed group delay has a significant peak just below the crossover frequency. Filter Q = 0.707. 4th-order Gaussian: (A seldom used filter that is constructed with an asymmetrical filter topology.) Produces a -6 dB crossover point to achieve a nearly flat amplitude response with moderate ripple. The summed group delay produces a moderate bump just below the crossover frequency. 4th-order Legendre: (A seldom used filter that is constructed with an asymmetrical filter topology.) Produces a -1 dB crossover point that sums to a +5 dB amplitude response with minor ripple. The summed group delay has a significant peak just below the crossover frequency. 4th-order Linear-Phase: (A seldom used filter that is constructed with an asymmetrical filter topology.) Produces a -6 dB crossover point to achieve a nearly flat amplitude response with moderate ripple. The summed group delay produces a moderate bump just below the crossover frequency. 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley: (Very popular. Sometimes called a «squared Butterworth» filter. Also used for some D’Appolito mid-tweeter-mid designs.) Produces a -6 dB crossover point to achieve a maximally flat amplitude response that qualifies it as an APC network. It has a -3 dB dip in the power response. The summed group delay produces a moderate bump just below the crossover frequency. Filter Q = 0.49. 4th-order APC: Produces -6 dB crossover points to achieve a flat amplitude response but the power response will have approximately 3 dB of ripple. 4th-order CPC: (Seldom used.) Produces -3 dB crossover points to achieve a flat power response but the amplitude response will have approximately 3 dB of ripple. Source : Xover Pro Harris Technologies Acknowledgements: I would like to thank Shane Rich (Technical Director of RBH Sound, Inc) for helping with the compilation of this information to serve as a tool in forthcoming technical articles and reviews of loudspeakers. Gene manages this organization, establishes relations with manufacturers and keeps Audioholics a well oiled machine. His goal is to educate about home theater and develop more standards in the industry to eliminate consumer confusion clouded by industry snake oil. Confused about what AV Gear to buy or how to set it up? Join our Exclusive Audioholics E-Book Membership Program!
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